Essential Data for Finishing 2020 Strong

By Kaitlin Milliken |  November 10, 2020

Resources Discussed in This Episode 


Hey, you’re listening to a bonus episode of Innovation Answered, the podcast for corporate innovators. In each episode, we ask a central question about the things that make change hard at large organizations. Then we get answers from experts about how innovators can overcome these challenges and make an impact. I’m Kaitlin Milliken from InnoLead.

In this episode, what does the data show about how corporate innovation is changing?

In Q3, our editorial team kicked into overdrive, creating content that reflects the state of the innovation world today. In so many ways, 2020 has felt like standing beneath a powerful waterfall of change — from the shift to remote work and Zoom, to closing brick and mortar locations and redesigning them, to changing buying habits, to the national dialogue around police brutality and racial reckoning, to the aftermath of the presidential election — and that doesn’t even cover the whole list. To explore out how big companies have been responding to it all, we released four research reports this fall.

Our CxOs and Innovation project focuses on how teams have shifted in the past six months and how they’re planning for the next six months and beyond. This project is composed of two mini-reports, released in August and October. The first explores the changing role of the innovation leader at big companies — including metrics that matter to innovators and how their mandate has been expanding. The second report, “A New Vision for Corporate Innovation,” focuses on how innovation is connected to the C-suite, and what emerging technology areas big companies care about most.

Our “Digitizing the Innovation Team” report talks about how companies are revamping what they do for this new era of remote collaboration. That includes change how they work with colleagues as well as with customers and users. Here, the research takes a deep dive into how digital tools — like software and platforms — are being used by these teams.

And lastly, we released our “Benchmarking Innovation Initiatives in Financial Services” report last week. Based on interviews with 15 leaders at financial services firms, this report covers how incubation and technology exploration happens inside banks, insurers, and mutual fund companies, among others.

Today, we’ll take a deep dive into the most important data points in these reports. Joining for the conversation is Scott Kirsner, CEO and Co-founder of InnoLead, and Alex Slawsby, a Senior Researcher at IL.

Thank you both for being here today.

Alex Slawsby: Thanks so much. Yeah, great to be here.

Scott Kirsner: I’m looking forward to it.

Kaitlin Milliken: So I wanted to get started by talking about some data from our most recent report “CxOs and Innovation” part two. Last year 56 percent of respondents to our Benchmarking Report said they expected an increase in their funding in 2020. For a number of reasons, a lot related to COVID, that’s not the case. What’s the outlook for the rest of the year and 2021?

Alex Slawsby: Yeah, thanks, Katie. Well, as you mentioned, slow down this year. So a lot of refocusing, particularly early in the year on core priorities, budget freezes, some budget reductions, as you might expect. Everybody sort of saying, “Whoa, what is this? Let’s figure it out. And let’s figure out what it means for innovation priorities.” So a tough part of the beginning of the year.

Things seem to have opened up a bit now. There’s some more optimism. There’s some more belief that we need to return to normal. And so some of those budget reductions, maybe some of those things are slowing down the freezes or unfreezing a bit. And then I think, as always, there’s a lot of optimism for the future. And I think we’ve seen that now in a number of the reports we’ve done, where research has shown that folks believe budgets are going to grow next year, and that we’re going to get back into a state of looking at broader innovation investments. We need to return to growth and differentiation. And that 2021 is going to be certainly a better year than this one.

Kaitlin Milliken: Scott, do you have anything to add to that?

Scott Kirsner: So it’s interesting. I did a little bit of a drill down on the data because I was curious. It feels to us, anecdotally, like there are some industries that are maybe like more regulated industries, like financial services, healthcare, pharma, utilities, that have been weathering 2020 better than than others. Certainly better than like the retail industry or the hospitality industry, the restaurant industry. And you do find when you look at this budget data for those industries, that there’s more stability of budgets, compared to the overall respondents set and more people who are optimistic — they’re about 3 or 4 percent more optimistic that their 2021 budgets are going to increase dramatically or moderately. Maybe they’re better at the digital customer relationship, or maybe they just have tighter grips on their customers in general, have, you know have more stable or growing budgets.

Kaitlin Milliken: And for the teams where the budget is contracting is that a lot of the service sector and consumer goods?

Scott Kirsner: The two categories where you notice that there’s been a lot of turmoil this year, our retail and consumer goods and products. Alex, I don’t know if you have anything to add to that. We have a category that’s called automotive transport and logistics that the airline industry falls into. Obviously, it’s been a challenging year for them.

Alex Slawsby: It’s interesting. There’s one example I can think of an organization in the hospitality sector, which of course, that sector has been really hammered by COVID. This organization in particular seems to be on pretty solid financial footing, they’ve been around for a long time. So the message we got from them was “yeah, times are really tough, but things are going to get better. And this is the time to invest in innovation and to invest in thinking through ‘Okay, well, what will the new normal be? Perhaps fewer in person events, more hybrid, sort of virtual and in-person event combinations.’ Let’s invest in innovation to develop new solutions, maybe new business models, bring in new technologies, to make that really compelling when things begin to kick in, hopefully next year.” So I think we do see some organizations within those hard hit sectors saying, “Well, this is the time to get ahead. And this is the time to prepare for leadership when things do come back.”

Kaitlin Milliken: Great, I definitely want to return to how the world is changing and how teams are responding to that. But I do want to move on to talk a little bit about metrics. Of course, as we mentioned, there are tighter budgets across companies, even if we’re seeing a little bit of a bounce back predicted for next year. Teams are, right now, in a position where they need to prove their value to senior leadership and show that innovation is important. What should they be measuring to do that? Scott, if you want to kick us off.

Scott Kirsner: We ask the question, like what metrics matter to your senior leadership team right now. And revenue and cost reduction are really the big two in 2020. Innovation and R&D groups need to show that they’re moving the needle on one or both of those things. Are you launching new offerings into the market that are producing new revenue? Are you finding ways to streamline things, be more efficient, be more digital that are bringing down costs.

But the other set that was really interesting, which sometimes to us feel feels like the softer things that innovation teams maybe give short shrift to, and I think sometimes we give short shrift to and don’t think about the importance of it, is perception related metrics. This is really been a year I think, for large companies where whether it’s racial unrest and demonstrations around police brutality, whether it’s the coronavirus pandemic, whether it’s the political, you know, the presidential elections and the senate elections, there are so many ways that companies can be seen to be on the right or wrong side of public perception. I mean, for heaven’s sake, we have a president who calls out individual companies by name when he feels like they’re doing something that he doesn’t like.

And so this is a year where I think perception and brand are really important to companies. What we saw was actually brand building and market perception was the third metric that was really important to senior leadership. And the fourth one was Net Promoter Score. So kind of a word of mouth metric. How willing are your customers to recommend which you do to other people? And I do think that net promoter score ties into loyalty. It ties into customer relationships, and are you doing new stuff? Are you innovating in a way that makes your customers feel like they have a stronger tie to you and that they’re generating good word of mouth for you?

Kaitlin Milliken: Yeah, that’s really interesting. I recently talked to one of our members who was mentioning that things around brand building or relationships, or just overall perception can be tough to measure, specifically outside of a net promoter score. Alex, Scott, is there any thoughts on how teams can measure that looser, what do our customers actually think of us, information?

Scott Kirsner: Well I think there are a lot of social media metrics where people are trying to measure is the overall discussion of our product, net positive or net negative on social media, doing sentiment analysis and things like that.

There was kind of this feel good story in October. I think it was early October, where someone on TikTok had posted a video… Did you guys see this the TikTok video of the dad skateboarding down the highway and drinking Ocean Spray cranberry juice and singing along to “Dreams” by Fleetwood Mac. Mick Fleetwood posted his own TikTok video, and he was also drinking Ocean Spray cranberry juice on a skateboard.

And then I think the thing that was brilliant in terms of like, October, November, I think are pretty important time for brand perception if you’re Ocean Spray, and you’re in the cranberry business… Then the Ocean Spray CEO posted a TikTok video of himself skateboarding and drinking their product. And then he sent a truck and a truck full of Ocean Spray product to the guy who initiated it. I mean, I feel like that could turn out to be the ad campaign of the year, and I bet at cost Ocean Spray $10,000 and generated just so much discussion of their product.

Kaitlin Milliken: Yeah, we’re all gonna have a really healthy kidneys coming out of this time period.


Kaitlin Milliken: When it comes to things teams are measuring right now. Do you have any thoughts, Alex, on how that’s changed since prior to the pandemic?

Alex Slawsby: Yeah, well, we put together a resource earlier in the year called “Strengthening the Case for Continued Investment in Innovation,” because we were talking to a lot of innovation leaders who found themselves now having to adjust and adjust quickly based on the direction in which their leadership teams wanted to go based on how they felt their organization was going to perform in the pandemic, right? So we saw some that we isolated to sort of capitalize and grow cases where, as mentioned earlier, “Hey, times are tough, but we’re in a good position as an organization, and there’s a lot of potential certainly, as things get better. Let’s capitalize on this opportunity, identify new problems we can solve, new growth areas, and let’s actually accelerate.” And so you know, for that the guidance for innovation leaders is to think sort of carefully through have careful discussions with leadership teams to understand “Okay, what are those new priorities?” And then to develop, perhaps some very focused research efforts to quickly understand what those problems are and ideate through what you could build. So do sprint like things then come back to senior leadership teams and say, “Hey, we can build a business here.”

And then the flip side of that organizations more in a protect and defend sort of situation where there may be now pressure on the innovation teams and the budgets and the resources and the senior leadership saying, “This is not the time perhaps not only to expand, but this may be the time to step back a little bit.” And so, you know, on the flip side of that, perhaps some techniques for innovation leaders to say, “Hey, let’s show you all the value we’ve created. And also make clear that if we do step back too far, when things do come back, we’re going to have lost capacity and capability that may be very hard for us to recover.” So important to be really agile, and for innovation leaders and teams to listen very closely to that internal customer, which is their senior leadership folks and figure out which way they’re leaning, and then respond accordingly.

Scott Kirsner: If you haven’t been looking at 2020 as an opportunity to get more digital and give your customers more ways to ask questions, to buy, to schedule appointments, to interact with your company, through their mobile device, or over the internet — man, you have just wasted the opportunity of 2020. I think about probably the the most apt tweet of the year was that one that says, “What has been most responsible for your organization’s digital transformation? Is that the CEO, the Chief Digital Officer, the CIO, or COVID-19?” I think it’s, it’s really driven a lot of digital progress in a lot of companies like Alex is saying. This is a year that will accelerate despite all the chaos and turmoil of 2020, it’s really going to accelerate digitization for a lot of companies.

Kaitlin Milliken: So I think that transitions really nicely to talking a little bit more about getting digital. Our team released “Digitizing the Innovation Team,” a report that really drills into that. And one of the findings was that only 47 percent of teams are using innovation tools, and 53 percent — the majority — are not. Can you talk a little bit about why we’re seeing that pattern, Alex?

Alex Slawsby: There were a number of things that the respondents highlighted as reasons why they hadn’t yet to adopt innovation focused digital tools. And when we say that we mean tools specifically built for innovation leaders and teams and innovation activities. It could be scouting, it could be idea campaigns and engagement of employees within the organization. It could be managing the pipeline, ideation, all of those things. So there certainly is a part of it, which is innovation leaders are very very busy. And they’re trying to deliver a measurable, tangible value. And so they’re using whatever tools are just available to them. And of course, the ROI story, the case to be made is fairly easy if it’s tools that the enterprise has already paid for. So, “Hey, we’ve got Office365, or we’ve got WebEx or whatever, let’s just use it and make it work.” And so that’s just the default. And you don’t have to spend a lot of time researching new things. But you also don’t have to spend time negotiating with it and legal, procurement, other key functions within the organization to get permission to bring in a brand new tool, and to think through data security and to do integration with existing platform.

So there may be tools out there that could greatly improve innovation team performance. Innovation leaders may not have the time to go figure out are those out there and where they work. But then even if they do, are they willing to go through that thicket of challenge, which is now we’ve got to get the whole organization on board. And then you get to cost but it was interesting, right? Because cost was not at the top of the list. IT challenges were. So it’s just a lot of stuff that companies developing and selling innovation-specific digital tools, need to get over and need to be mindful of as they try to break through. So for most innovation leaders, it’s like, “Well, what we got it’s working. And it may be better. But you know, we don’t have time for it.”

Kaitlin Milliken: A part of that report featured interviews with respondents, including Natalija Jovanovic, Chief Digital Officer of Sanofi Pasteur. I want to play a little recording of that.

Natalija Jovanovic: It’s perfectly okay to use the tools that you already have. Some of the collaboration suites that we already have, whether they’re from established companies that have been around for roughly 40 years, or from newer companies that have been around for 15 to 20 years, are extremely capable, and many of them are already included in the cost of your computer or they’re free online. So think about: “How do I bring the work to where the people already are?” Rather than just hunting for a tool, just so that you can say, “My team uses this tool?”

Kaitlin Milliken: What did other respondents have to say about successfully implementing new technology?

Scott Kirsner: One thing they had to say was really, that there’s like a social and interpersonal and communication challenge here, which is, “once you’ve deployed a tool, actually getting people to learn it, and to use it consistently.” I think we all have a set of four or five software tools that we use every day. And so how do you get into that heavy rotation of things where you’re going into the tool to see what’s in the idea pipeline, or to post comments, or to score things. And getting that engagement is not something that you do the week you launch the tool or the month you launch the tool, but over quarters, and over years.

Alex Slawsby: And a point, we can’t emphasize enough: Organizations and innovation leaders are challenged to report out on the ROI of a tool or the satisfaction of a tool. Their satisfaction in the tool, maybe less than ideal. We found that it’s pretty rarely the tool like “oh, the functionality wasn’t quite right. Or we glitched on us.” It almost always had to do with organizational adoption and organizational support. And so, this is what’s really interesting. Companies that are developing and selling innovation, specific digital tools. They need to put in a lot of effort to help those innovation leaders that they’re working with, prepare their organizations and get the organizations to rally around those tools. Otherwise, the tool could be the greatest thing in the world, but the internal customers aren’t adopting them. And of course, that’s not easy, right? Companies who are great at developing software and services may also need to be really great at navigating organizations and working through politics and helping innovation leaders do that. That stuff is, frankly, much harder than developing great software, which of course, is not easy in its own right. So I think we heard that loud and clear from our interviews and in the data itself. And it’s just a point that’s so important to make.

Scott Kirsner: I thought the top three challenges were really interesting when we asked like, “What are the biggest challenges you face if you’re trying to introduce some kind of new tool or or technology platform?” And the first one was like, how does it integrate with existing datasets and other tools? The second was learning curve and adoption, which you know, we’ve been talking about. And the third was information, security concerns, and just everything really needing to go through that security audit process, which many of these tools can get through, but it’s just very time consuming.

Kaitlin Milliken: I do have two more questions before we wrap up. We’ve heard anecdotally in a lot of our research that teams are changing their priorities. We touched a little bit on that in regards to becoming more digital. But can you share some other data about how or why that portfolio or strategy is shifting?

Scott Kirsner: I’m surprised that the the portfolio hasn’t shifted more in 2020. Like, given how much we’ve been experiencing, as parents, as human beings, as consumers this year. It seems like our lives have really been upended. And when we ask questions about how significantly are your innovation priorities changing, you don’t get the sense that the apple cart has been completely turned over or that in 2019 we were riding horses, and this year, we’re riding hippopotamuses. Not a lot has changed. One question we asked in the third quarter of the year, and in this “CxOs and Innovation” survey that we did was just about the mix of incremental and adjacent and transformational activities that these teams are working on. And you didn’t really see a dramatic swing. I mean, as you’d suspect people are working on more incremental stuff, a little more adjacent stuff, and about 5 percent of a decline in transformational or Horizon three projects. But then when you look at industries, I did a drill down on this Alex, and kind of looked at industries where you would expect them to have a really robust R&D group — pharmaceuticals, aerospace and defense, the tech sector — and you find that there’s not as much of a swing, that those folks didn’t shelve their transformational projects in 2020, as much as the typical respondent did.

Kaitlin Milliken: Yeah, and just for our listeners out there, the overall data that we found for 2020 is teams are spending 51 percent of their time on incremental activities, 28 percent of their time on adjacent activities, and 21 percent on transformational. So H1, H2, and H3 respectively. Whereas in 2019, incremental was only 48 percent, adjacent was 26 percent. And transformational was 5 percent higher than this year’s estimate, also at 26 percent. Alex, do you have any thoughts on the changes that we’re seeing?

Alex Slawsby: If you’re gonna get your transformational growth work. If you’re gonna say, “We’re no longer going to focus on what’s going to close our growth gap in the next several years. We’re no longer going to focus on the building the businesses that might be our future, particularly when it comes to new digital businesses, when we’ve been analog so far.” You’re sort of like saying, “Well, eventually, we’re going to pack up and go home.”

Now, look, some organizations have been hit so hard with the pandemic, that there’s a bit of a survival question here. And so yeah, okay, “Well, let’s refocus, we’ve got to shore up the core business, we’ve got to maybe make incremental tweaks to it. But if we don’t do that, you know, we’re really in trouble over the long run. So worry less about what’s going to be big in 10 years.” But, if an organization can sort of get through this, even if it’s tough times, and if there’s a bit of a longer view for investors, and backers and stuff like that, then I mean, you’d be sacrificing the future of the organization just for maybe some brief positive impact in the short term. As we’ve discussed time and time again, these transformational growth capabilities are unique, and it takes time to build up the muscles to build new things and MVP them and create value in the short term, even if the business isn’t expected deliver for several years. If you just fire those people, and you stop doing that work, you can’t just go “Okay, now let’s turn the lights back on and start again.” Other organizations are being quite opportunistic right now. They’ll hire them, and then you won’t have them anymore, and you won’t have that capability when you need it. So I think, look, we expected to see some shift. But perhaps it’s not surprising that we didn’t suddenly see everybody say, “Oh, we’re going to turn off, you know, the long term growth engine.”

Kaitlin Milliken: So in June, we released a report called what the future looks like that includes pre-pandemic activities that people are really excited to get back to and others that they’re basically saying never again, those are dead. What are some of those activities? And has that data held up as we move into the fall?

Scott Kirsner: Well, one of the things that people don’t expect to be doing as much of his business travel and going to conferences and trade shows. I heard someone say, I was on a webcast with the R&D Chief at Novartis. And he kind of mentioned that as well, like, “Boy, I think we used to get on planes a lot. And we used to go to, whether it’s internal meetings or cross company meetings, we spent a lot of our time doing that, that maybe would have been better dedicated to being in the office and working or participating in those things virtually and via Zoom or other platforms.” So I think some of that is true, but I just want to say, I went to a hybrid in-person and offline event recently and in early October here in Massachusetts. And, almost all the people who showed up at that event, I think, had gotten a COVID test and made sure that they were healthy enough to be at an in-person event. It was such a different experience than interacting with people on Zoom.

You could have a very different kind of conversation when you’re four people sitting around a table socially distanced, versus four people on Zoom, where the conversation just always feels a little bit stilted. And certainly once you start to have 10, 20, 30 people in a Zoom meeting, there’s lots of people who are tuned out and are not really listening and participating in that. I’m a contrarian. And I think that once we’re in a good place in terms of testing and vaccines, maybe it’s by the second half of next year, by the fourth quarter of next year, where enough people have gotten their hands on vaccines — or like this event, where we figured out how to throw events where you can be tested in advance, people aren’t going to be craving that contact with peers and with customers. And I actually think in person events, maybe initially there in person events you don’t need to get on a plane for and they’re in your city, I think they’re going to come back in a big, big way.

Alex Slawsby: I agree. But I think also, it may be short-lived. So I mean, I’ve spent time in doing some stuff in VR. And when I’ve been doing it, it’s obviously pretty early generation VR stuff. But there’s some amazing elements. There’s some amazing experiences you can have, right? So I mean, the classic Clay Christensen progression here is that technology is just going to get better and better and better, and make experiences better and better and better, right? So part of the reason why Zoom is no replacement for in-person events and communication is because most of us don’t have the bandwidth we need to make the the communication very smooth and real high definition. We don’t have the cameras we need. We don’t have the audio we need. There’s all bunch of things there that are just suboptimal. We don’t have the big screens, you know, the setups to make it feel impersonal.

Years ago, I remember doing some stuff over some of the Cisco room conferencing stuff where you had the big screens, and it looked like the table you are at, extended around through the screens. And the people who are thousands of miles away, we’re at the other side of the table, right? And of course, we’ve got dedicated connectivity between the site. So it’s highly optimized, and, of course, immensely expensive. But I think my point is that tech is just going to get better and better and better. And there’s cost associated with, as we’ve talked about, like commuting into the office, getting ready for that. There’s cost associated time and money going to events. And so I do think people will crave that, but I also see no reason why technology isn’t just gonna get better and better and better. And then why can’t I join an event thousands of miles away, eventually, by putting on this very lightweight set of glasses or not even right? And there’s a package I just buy and it gives me the hardware and boom I’m there. I know Microsoft and teams, they’re trying to do it so it feels more like people are sitting in a room. It’s interesting. I think a lot of this is accelerating these transitions. I think in person will come back. But I also think over the long run, I don’t know. I think we’re just going to get more and more used to and interested in doing things virtually.

Scott Kirsner: Well, that that may be true. And there was some conversation at this in person conference about you know, telepresence robots. And and the idea of like, “Well, if you had to go to the Detroit Auto Show, or the National Retail Federation show in New York,” which I think Katie has been to and I’ve been to as well, this big trade shows like “why couldn’t you just have a telepresence robot, and you’d log into that robot for three hours one day and three hours the next and you’d walk around the booths, and you’d maybe have some conversations with people and that would be a better experience than hauling your your behind across the country to go to Las Vegas or to go to LA for for a big trade show.” So I do think we’ll see more of that.

My biggest question about this in-person stuff, whether it’s, a car salesman who’s selling you a luxury car, or a jewelry salesperson who’s selling you a $10,000 watch, or enterprise sales people who are strying to sell a product to Walmart — are we going feel like this VR or robotic telepresence or Zoom video, are these real relationships that you’re forging? How persuasive can you be? I think that we’re still in a phase where just everybody feels like, for sales for bizdev for real partnership building, being being on Zoom in two dimensions doesn’t quite get there, in terms of making you feel like “Oh, you really know somebody.” You’re gonna ask them about whether they’ve been playing tennis a lot, or how their kids are doing or just all of that stuff that tends to build authentic, real, human relationships.

Alex Slawsby: Can I tell a quick telepresence robot story?

Scott Kirsner: Yeah, you should. And then maybe I’ll tell one of mine. Have you been on a telepresence robot before?

Alex Slawsby: So real quick, a big coworking space out in San Francisco, where we had some space in a previous role I was in, they had these telepresence robots that would wheel around and I never seen them before, right. So they got the wheels, the little base with wheels, and then the thin stock, and then the screen with the camera. And so they were just go around. And it was the funniest thing. One goes around and encounters my coworker, and the guy who was on the robot or communicating through it was in England at the time. And he was asking if my coworker knew where a certain meeting room was. And my co worker stood there and it’s so funny, because he’s talking to this robot. And he’s trying to communicate. And then my co-worker says, “Well, maybe you should go to the information desk and go ask there.” And the guy wasn’t sure what the information desk was. So my co workers like, “Well, I’ll take you there.” So he literally picks up the robot. The guy wasn’t quite saying this, but it’s almost like he was sort of like, “Wait on hand to me. Where are you taking me?”


Scott Kirsner: Well, my experience a couple years ago was logging in to a telepresence robot that was in Palo Alto at some event in a coworking, startup incubator space. And it was cool to be able to see the event, but there was some networking happening. And it was kind of loud in the room. I think it was one of those noisy rooms. It’s 5 PM, and people are having some drinks, and they’re talking to people. And I’m on a telepresence robot trying to kind of work my way into a conversational cluster. And the speaker wasn’t loud enough, so that anyone could hear me when I tried to jump into the conversation, and so I could see people were pointing at me and people are very curious, like, “Who is this robot that rolled up into our conversational group?” And my voice in most situations, I feel like my voice is too loud. And here I was a robot that couldn’t be heard. But I was being like, seen and pointed at it wasn’t a great interaction, for sure.

Kaitlin Milliken: All right. So on that note, we’ll see what comes next in terms of virtual conferencing, remote robots, and all of that good stuff. But thank you so much, Scott and Alex. I’m sure we’ll hear from you both again, as we get more data and more research on the world as it changes.

Scott Kirsner: And we should also mention, too, if people have questions that they want us to explore in InnoLead research or topics or themes, they can always email me at editor@innovation We’d love to hear from folks who are working on innovation, R&D strategy, emerging tech inside big companies.

Kaitlin Milliken: Thanks Alex and Scott for hopping on to Zoom this morning to chat about some of our recent research.

Scott Kirsner: Thanks, Katie.

Alex Slawsby: Yeah, thanks, Katie. It was great.

Kaitlin Milliken: You’ve been listening to Innovation Answered. This episode was written and edited by me, Kaitlin Milliken. All of these reports are available to InnoLead Members. You can download all these resources at For more updates on our show, be sure to subscribe to Innovation Answered wherever you get your podcasts. You can get bonus, web-only content at Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you soon.